By Howard Fischer
Capitol Media Services
PHOENIX -- State lawmakers are moving to make it illegal to use computer "bots'' to scoop up tickets for concerts and sporting events and then reselling them to Arizonans at sharply inflated prices.
But at least one legislator is questioning whether any of what is in HB 2040, as it currently exists, actually is enforceable -- or will make any real difference.
Rep. David Cook told colleagues the issue came across his radar last year when Taylor Swift fans found out they couldn't actually buy tickets from the official web site because they already had been scooped up by automated software designed to fool the sales site in a way to get around the limit on how much any one individual could buy. And the programs did it so fast that it actually resulted in Ticketmaster shutting down sales -- leaving fans with the only option to buy from secondary sellers who were setting their own prices.
"The fans got fleeced for a lot of money,'' the Globe Republican said. "The Legislature needs to stand up and protect Arizonans today.''
The measure which cleared the House Commerce Committee earlier this week would forbid anyone from using a bot to purchase more tickets than the listed limit. That includes "fooling'' the site making the sales through multiple internet protocol addresses, creating multiple purchaser accounts or having multiple email addresses.
It also would bar anyone from finding a way around any sort of electronic queue or waiting period to snap up tickets before others can have a chance.
Randall Vogel, who said he specializes in presentation of performances and concerts, said bots have had a great impact on ticket prices. And he said this isn't just about big events like Taylor Swift's Eras Tour.
"Thousands of tickets are purchased annually from medium or small venues across the state by bots,'' Vogel said. "And they are then resold at exorbitant prices at the expense of true fans, limiting access to affordable admission to a performance.''
Vogel said he has seen $50 tickets snapped up and then resold for $300.
"Without legislation, this issue will only get worse,'' he said.
Attorney Howard Waltzman said there already is a federal law that, at least on paper, bans the use of bots. And Waltzman, who represents Live Nation and its Ticketmaster affiliate, said that law allows a state attorney general to enforce that law.
The problem, he explained, is those lawsuits have to be filed in federal court, a process he said is much slower than what HB 2040 would allow with these complaints being handled in state court. He also said that the Federal Trade Commission has first priority in pursuing such cases, meaning any state action has to wait until that is done.
This measure would put the issue in state courts.
While Live Nation is in support, the legislation is getting opposition from Stubhub. It maintains a web site where it offers tickets for resale.
That includes the upcoming Men's Final Four scheduled for April in Glendale. A check of the company's web site showed a pair of tickets in the lower tiers going for more than $8,000.
"We provide choice for consumers,'' said Sean Auyash. And he argued that this actually is much safer for customers than it used to be.
"Stubhub revolutionized the resale marketplace by bringing ticket resale off the street and bringing it online,'' Auyash said. And he told lawmakers that no one should prohibit that practice.
And, as Auyash sees it, if there's an issue with bots, that's a problem for the primary sellers, meaning the venues and the services like Ticketmaster that it uses. He said it's up to them to set up procedures and practices to keep individuals and computer programs from snatching up more than their fair share of tickets.
That explanation did not sit well with Rep. Analise Ortiz. The Phoenix Democrat has been working with Cook to rein in these kinds of practices.
She got Auyash to acknowledge that at least some of the tickets sold on Stubhub may have originated from people using bots.
"Should we make this illegal, those people using bots to get around the system who then go to your service and use your service to price gouge, those people will no longer be coming to you, which means your bottom line would take a hit,'' Ortiz said.
Auyash sidestepped the question, responding that the use of bots already is illegal under federal law and that Arizona should not be approving its own regulations.
That still leaves the question of enforcement.
"The bots are sophisticated technical attacks,'' Waltzman said.
"It is often impossible to know what IP address an attack is coming from,'' he said of those internet protocol addresses which are supposed to identify the origin of the connection. But that hasn't proven to be true.
"Even if you know the numbers of the IP address, that's an IP address that's bouncing around from Bulgaria to the Philippines to wherever else,'' Waltzman said. "You can't identify who's using those bots, let alone who is paying for those bots to be used so they can sell tickets.''
And he said people also can set up dummy email addresses.
All that bothered Rep. Justin Heap, R-Mesa, who questioned why the state should now have the attorney general investigate.
"If you can't identify who's using bots to stop the sellers, how are you then going to identify who used a bot in order to get the AG to file injunctive relief?'' he asked.
Cook agreed. But he said the solution may be to alter his legislation to put the focus on where it belongs: those secondary sellers like Stubhub who are buying those tickets. He said they should be forced to inquire of those who offer up, say, 60 tickets for a event where the limit was just four.
"OK, well how'd you get them?'' should be first the question asked. "Then they have to start explaining themselves.''
One option, Cook said, would be putting something in the proposal that doesn't now exist: a requirement for those secondary buyers like Stubhub to report such unusual offers.
"They're the ones doing it,'' he said.
Cook said he will be weighing options for alterations for when the measure goes to the full House.
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