By Howard Fischer
Capitol Media Services
PHOENIX -- Two Republicans vying to get elected to an open congressional seat each are claiming to be firm adherents to the policies of the party's de facto chief: Donald Trump.
In a debate Thursday, Daniel Butierez and Jorge Rivas who seek to become the GOP nominee for the special election this year to replace Democrat Raul Grijalva who died in March, both proclaimed themselves to be supporters of the president's efforts to raise tariffs.
Both also said they have no problem with the mass deportations of those not here legally. Nor were they troubled by the fact that while the president at first said his focus would be on criminals and dangerous individuals, his administration has given Immigration and Customs Enforcement latitude to pick up anyone, anywhere, who is undocumented -- even right outside a federal courthouse where they have shown up for their asylum hearings.
"The law must be enforced,'' said Butierez.
"It was ignored when they came in,'' he said. "And we need to remove anyone who came in illegally.''
Rivas said no one should be surprised about how Trump has directed immigration enforcement.
"He's doing the job he was hired to do,'' said Rivas who himself came to the United States from El Salvador in the 1980s and was granted political asylum.
But Rivas also told host Ted Simons of KAET-TV, the Phoenix PBS affiliate that aired the debate, that he has no problem with ICE going into churches and schools to find those they intend to deport.
"If it's within the United States, and the law of the United States apply, so be it,'' he said.
"We cannot pick and choose where we enforce the law,'' Rivas said. "We cannot pick and choose when we enforce the law. If we do that, we become a banana republic.''
Butierez, for his part, disagreed.
"I don't think law enforcement should be going into our schools or our churches,'' he said. "I believe they should be sanctuary areas.''
But both said they have no problem deporting those who may be being sent back to countries they fled, even if they face danger when they return.
"They're criminals that never should have come here in the first place,'' Butierez said.
"I don't blame the administration that's doing this and sending them back,'' he continued. "I blame the previous administration that let them come in.''
Rivas, for his part, rejected the suggestion that returning these migrants to places they fled could be considered cruel.
"There are many things that are cruel in this country, or even the world,'' he said. And Rivas said it's not the responsibility of the United States to be sure that every country treats its citizens well.
"I think the United States has a responsibility to take care of the citizens of this country and to make sure that this country does not become cruel or a dictatorship or whatever they might want to call it.''
Both also said they would have supported the measure just approved by the U.S. House -- the chamber in which they hope to serve -- that included cuts to Medicaid and other programs.
"I know there's a lot of fraud,'' Rivas said.
"Organizations and individuals have been stealing left and right from Medicare and Medicaid,'' he said. "The Trump administration is just making sure the money is being used properly for the people that need help and not necessarily being offered to anyone, where anyone can take it, and just abuse it as they have been for so many years.''
Butierez said he's not convinced that anyone who needs and is entitled to care is going to be denied services.
It starts, he said, with the fact that the measure is not yet in final form and still needs to clear the Senate. Beyond that, Butierez said all the talk now about people losing care is just "fear mongering.''
And Rivas said if people are looking for someone to blame for the fact that the current administration is trying to cut costs, they should look at the past four years under Joe Biden.
Consider, he said, money sent by the U.S. Agency for International Development to to create Ahlan Simsim, a version of Sesame Street for children in Iraq. A federal government web site put the funding at $13 million.
"Also, they gave Ukraine, what, $400 billion ... to kill people?'' Rivas said.
"Why didn't we save that $400 billion and say half of that would go to Medicare and Medicaid?'' he said. "That's why I'm running because I'm tired of those people in Washington doing whatever they want, left and right, and nobody holds them accountable.''
Various web sites, however, have put the amount of emergency funding to Ukraine since the war with Russia started in 2022 at about half of that claimed by Rivas.
The two GOP candidates who showed up for Thursday's debate -- Jimmy Rodriguez pulled out at the last minute -- did agree on one specific fact: When Butierez ran against Grijalva in the regular general election in 2024, he picked up nearly 100,000 votes.
By contrast, Grijalva got close to 172,000 votes. But Butierez said the fact he could do that well in a heavily Democratic district against the long-time congressman shows that he is electable in a race without an incumbent.
Rivas has a different take on the results of the 2024 general election. He pointed out that Grijalva had been absent from Congress since February but did return in November after completing cancer treatment. By that time he had announced that the 2024 election would be his last.
Grijalva, debilitated from his cancer treatment, did not campaign, was seen using a wheelchair, and died just two months after being sworn in this past January. What that means, Rivas said, is that Butierez essentially ran unopposed and "only got a very small percentage of the vote.''
"So I please ask you, not to waste your vote any more and give me a chance,'' Rivas said.
Butierez, however, did get in one specific dig at Rivas: the fact that he admitted he does not live within the congressional district.
There is no legal requirement for members of Congress to live within the district they seek to represent. And Rivas said afterwards that he and his family do most of their shopping and other activities within the portion of Tucson that is in CD 7.
The primary is set for July 15. Whoever wins the GOP contest will face off Sept. 23 against whichever of the five Democrats wins that party's primary.
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