By Howard Fischer
Capitol Media Services
PHOENIX — Republicans in Arizona are being asked to decide exactly how much experience someone needs actually practicing law to be the attorney general, head of the state's largest law firm — and, more immediately, take on incumbent Democrat Kris Mayes in the general election.
But the two contenders debating Thursday night could not even agree on who has actual, relevant experience — and whether that matters.
Rodney Glassman cited his time as an attorney in the military where he said he prosecuted soldiers and airmen in military courts for committing crimes. He also has been in private practice and said that, now as a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force reserves, he supervises more than two dozen lawyers at Luke Air Force Base.
Warren Petersen for his part, has had a law license for less than three years. He said, though, he actually has prosecuted cases in Arizona courts — albeit as an intern in the Scottsdale City Attorney's Office before he got that license.
Petersen, however, called himself the "de facto attorney general.''
He said that, as Senate president, he is involved in managing more than 100 cases in which the legislature is either a party or has filed legal briefs. Still, he is not the actual lawyer going into court on any of those.
Anyway, he said, it doesn't matter. He said what the attorney general does comes down to "leadership, management and policy.''
But much of that debate over experience got lost in Petersen's repeated personal attacks on Glassman, calling him a "trust-fund baby'' and referring to his foe as "a charlatan,'' "a joke'' and "a criminal.'' That often left Glassman saying that various rumors about him — never specifically mentioned by either side during the hour-long debate — are not just false but being promoted by Petersen's allies.
Glassman's own political record, however, did leave him open to attack.
Petersen pointed out that Glassman he has run for office multiple times in the past two decades. And his only success was that far back when he served on the Tucson city council — as a Democrat.
There was an unsuccessful bid in 2010, again as a Democrat, to oust incumbent Republican Sen. John McCain. Only in 2015 did he switch parties — Glassman said he did so when Trump announced he was running for president — but still losing bids for corporation commission, Maricopa County assessor, and the 2022 GOP primary for attorney general.
Glassman responded by seeking to denigrate Petersen's experience.
"My primary opponent is a part-time legislator, a part-time Realtor, and got his law license just 28 months ago,'' he said.
"He's never filed a lawsuit as a lawyer, he's never prosecuted a criminal as a lawyer, and he's never worked in a law office,'' Glassman continued. "And if Republicans nominate someone to run against Kris Mayes this November with zero experience, all we're going to get is four more years of Kris Mayes.''
Petersen said the nine cases he did handle as an intern for Scottsdale do count as criminal experience, even if they were for misdemeanors.
"It means that I have prosecuted nine more trials than Rodney Glassman and Kris Mayes,'' he said. Mayes also has no trial experience.
In the next breath, however, Petersen said his limited trial experience is of no import.
"That is not what the attorney general does,'' he said.
"This is a management and policy office,'' Petersen said. "I'm the only candidate with extensive policy experience.''
There were other flashpoints.
Steve Goldstein, moderating the televised debate for the Citizens Clean Elections Commission, asked both if they believe that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election.
"The 2020 election was certified for Joe Biden,'' Glassman responded.
"Was there fraud in the 2020 election?'' he continued. "Unfortunately, we'll never know.''
He said the only person who could have made that determination was Republican Mark Brnovich, the state attorney general at that time, who Glassman said could have seized the ballots and conducted a "true investigation.''
"Sadly, he did not do that,'' Glassman said.
But Brnovich did do a review of the results of an "audit'' of the 2020 election organized by Petersen and then-Senate President Karen Fann. They gave ballots over to a group with no auditing experience. And what Brnovich concluded was that audit was "deeply flawed'' and that various reports of dead people voting "were ultimately determined to be isolated incidents.''
Glassman chided Petersen for mentioning his role in that audit.
"Be careful what you take credit for,'' he said.
"You didn't know about securing the ballots, you didn't know how to run a proper investigation,'' Glassman said. "And, in fairness to you, Warren, it's because you weren't even a licensed attorney.''
Petersen, however, never answered Goldstein's question about who won in 2020. Instead, he left open the idea that fraud still might be proven in that 2020 election, explaining how earlier this year he had turned over documents from that audit to Trump's Department of Justice.
The Senate president also said he has been involved in moves to change election laws. He s the author of legislation — so far not enacted — that would end the ability of Arizonans who had failed to mail back their early ballots to simply drop them off at polling places on Election Day.
"We'll get the results the night of the election instead of having to wait two weeks, three weeks,'' Petersen said. "Arizona was 50th in the nation in delivering our electoral votes.''
Glassman said he would protect election integrity, promising to drop pending criminal charges filed by Mayes against "fake electors'' and others who she said conspired to try after the 2020 election to deceive Congress that Trump had outpolled Biden and was entitled to the state's 11 electoral votes. Also gone, he said, would be any criminal charges against Cochise County supervisors who were indicted after initially refusing to certify the results of the 2022 election, charges Glassman said were brought because the "wanted to count their own ballots'' versus relying on tabulators.
There was plenty of agreement on one issue: Both contenders were critical of the incumbent.
"We live in a Republican state where President Trump won Arizona by over 5%,'' said Glassman.
"But we have an insane Democrat attorney general who sued the Trump administration 41 times in the past 16 months,'' he said. And Glassman said that Mayes has been able to do that because she has money in her budget — a budget he said that was approved not only by Democratic Gov. Katie Hobbs but also by Petersen as the Senate president.
Petersen countered that he has held Mayes financially accountable, saying that he beat her in court over her effort to block lawmakers from appropriating opioid settlement funds, getting her to pay $40,000 in legal fees.
But for all the talk about the need to replace Mayes, only Glassman said that if he lost he would back Petersen in the general election.
Petersen, for his part, responded that there have been "serious criminal allegations'' against Glassman, again, not mentioning any by name. "So I may be put in a situation where I'd have to leave my ballot blank.''
