By Howard Fischer
Capitol Media Services
SCOTTSDALE — Gubernatorial hopefuls sparred publicly for an hour Tuesday night over regulation of data centers, new restrictions on Medicaid and whether Arizona is running out of water.
Teri Ann Hourihan, the nominee of the No Labels Party, also put Republican Andy Biggs on the defensive over his role years ago as state Senate president in killing legislation proponents said would have helped halt child abuse in the polygamous community of Colorado City as well as his initial refusal as a member of Congress to support public release of the FBI files on convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.
The pair did, however, find common ground on what proved to be the elephant not in the room: incumbent Democrat Katie Hobbs who refused to join them on stage and publicly defend her own record.
Hobbs, leading Biggs in the polls, skipped the event. Instead, she said her multiple appearances have given the public a chance to know her positions and record even though most of these have actually been campaign events populated largely by supporters.
"Katie Hobbs ... refuses to actually come out of her basement and debate with us,'' said Biggs. "That is disqualifying.''
And that, he said, contrasts with the fact that he and Hourihan did agree to participate in the debate which was livestreamed, televised by some stations and aired live on radio.
"We get hard questions that we have to respond to,'' Biggs said.
"We may have to defend our record,'' he continued. "We may have to tell what our vision is. That's what we should be doing."
Hourihan said she blames many of the state's problems on elected officials, "including who I share the stage with here tonight, and the one who is hiding in her basement.'' And one example of the failure of Hobbs to act, she said, involves data centers.
Hourihan said what's needed is a pause — perhaps of just six months — on new construction while the state considers what regulations are necessary including on the use of energy and water. She also wants a study of potential effects on human health of these centers which can emit noise and heat.
Instead, Hourihan said, Hobbs signed a budget placing a three-year moratorium only on new tax breaks but allowing construction to continue.
"Katie Hobbs likes to pause things,'' Hourihan said. And even that, she noted, wasn't really effective, with the Arizona Commerce Authority getting 113 new applications for data center tax breaks just before the moratorium on them took effect.
"So what she did was actually hurt us,'' Hourihan said.
Biggs, for his part, questioned new limits.
"Everybody that's watching us is using a data processing center,'' he said.
"Everybody's who's got a cell phone in here has an app that's using one of those,'' Biggs said. "That's not going away anytime soon.''
Biggs said it is time to get rid of tax breaks entirely, not just pause them.
That, however, was exactly what the governor sought when she proposed her budget in January. It was the Republican-controlled Legislature that refused to go along.
He did say that the state should not let new data centers use power or water that "encroaches'' on current and future needs by residential and other commercial businesses. Then, at that point, the decision should be left to local communities.
Biggs said that's what happened in the Vail area of southeast Tucson where plans for a data center were rejected. By contrast, the Marana Town Council approved rezoning about 600 acres of agricultural land for a data center project.
The GOP nominee also was questioned about actions he took — twice — about the scope of Medicaid.
As Senate president he opposed a 2013 plan by then-Gov. Jan Brewer, also a Republican, to expand who can get free health care.
At the time only those making below the federal poverty level qualified, a figure that equaled about $23,500 for a family of four. The plan sought to boost that to 133% of the poverty level.
Brewer had found a way to have the additional costs picked up by hospitals after they concluded that more people with health insurance would mean fewer people showing up at their doors without funds for their care. Biggs opposed the move but was outmaneuvered by Brewer who cobbled together enough Democrats and Republicans to approve the plan.
"I support giving help to those who are truly in need,'' he said Tuesday. But he said that the biggest source of fraud in the Medicaid program are those who are able to work but choose not to.
More recently, Biggs supported last year's federal legislation which will impose new restrictions on Medicaid eligibility.
Hourihan called Biggs "one of the most dangerous people when it comes to Medicaid.''
She also said that Medicaid is not like some programs which are designed to provide only temporary help. Instead, it is based strictly on income, which means that there are working people who, because of the wages they are paid by their employers, actually qualify for state-provided health care.
On a larger perspective, Hourihan said the state needs to revamp eligibility for other programs, like subsidized child care.
She said there are people who want to work. But they find that once they get a job, the income pushes them just past the point where they would qualify, putting them in a position where they can no longer afford the care.
Hourihan said a better alternative would be a program where caregivers can continue to receive some assistance for some period after they get employment.
For Biggs, the answer to getting people to work is his plan to phase out entirely the state income tax which currently generates about $6 billion of the $18 billion Arizona takes in each year. And he insisted that the change, if done gradually, will not result in lost revenues or force cuts in state services.
"You jump start the economy,'' Biggs said.
"People want to work,'' he said. "They can get jobs because the economy is moving faster. The result is more tax revenue.''
Biggs acknowledged that the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, facing a declining flow in the Colorado River, decided that Arizona, California and Nevada would take the largest share of cuts in water supply. And Biggs said he worked with Democratic Congressman Greg Stanton to mitigate the damage, getting cash for drought relief.
"But what people forget, and when they start panicking, they forget that Arizona has massive and copious amounts of underground water supply storage,'' Biggs said, putting the figure at 660 million acre feet.
"If you were to treat that water and distribute that water, it would support a population of between 12 and 15 million people for 250 years if you didn't add any other drop,'' he said. The key, he said, is managing it.
Hourihan sniffed at his predictions.
"Andy Biggs is not an expert on this,'' she said. What's needed, Hourihan said, is a change in how Arizona uses it.
"We need to ensure that conservation methods are more strict in Arizona,'' she said.
Hourihan also wants to expand the number of "active management areas'' there are in the state, areas where businesses and residents are limited in how much they can take from the ground.
But the debate over policy issues got sidetracked after Biggs promised he would protect the state's international border.
"You're the person, I would tell you, that I would least trust to protect our borders,'' Hourihan said.
She pointed to a vote by the House in 2013 that was designed to let the state disband the marshal's office in Colorado City. That followed allegations that officers were taking their orders from Warren Jeffs, leaders of the polygamous Fundamentalist Church of Latter-day Saints and ignoring reports of underage girls being married off to adult men.
Biggs, Senate president at the time, used his power to assign the House-passed bill to two separate committees, a tactic often used to throw hurdles in the path of unfavored legislation. And the measure died.
"It essentially allowed, likely, hundreds of children to be married to adult men,'' Hourihan said, until a federal grand jury took action.
Biggs said Tuesday he had supported a narrower bill in 2012, pushed by then-Attorney General Tom Horne, which would have specifically allowed Mohave County to establish the Colorado City police department. But that bill died in the House.
As to the 2013 plan, Biggs said he heard from other police departments that bill was too broad and could affect them. But Hourihan said the death of that bill had consequences for the women and girls of Colorado City.
Biggs called it "an outrageous lie.'' And he questioned whether passing the 2013 bill would have done anything to curb the powers of Jeffs, who, beginning in 2006, was already serving time in prison. Hourihan noted, however, there is evidence that Jeff used his phone privileges and letters to continue to exercise control over the sect and events in Colorado City.
She also faulted Biggs for initially voting against a measure to require the Department of Justice to release its files on convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, though Biggs said he eventually did come around and supported the final measure.
Hobbs was not the only no-show. Green Party nominee Risa Lombardo had agreed to attend but canceled at the last minute.
